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Drastic Actions
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Would the death of Ashcliff be a good thing for Vincent in the long run?
Yes
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
No
47%
 47%  [ 9 ]
Maybe
36%
 36%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 19

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Nocturne



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 248
Location: UK - England

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Drastic Actions Reply with quote

A couple of nights ago, in one of my now-infamous discussions with ak-ryuu, he mentioned that people ask him why Vincent doesn't just kill the Baron in the storyline and be done with it.

So, do people think Vincent is capable of killing the Baron...and what would the circumstances of it be? Would it be simple or would there need to be a set of circumstances fulfilled before he would resort to such an action?
Finally, do people here think that killing the Baron would help Vincent in the long run?

(I already discussed this with ak-ryuu for a bit, so I'll hold off on posting my own view for a while)
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Negation



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 1456
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if baron's death would help Vincent in the long run. The only thing that will truly help him in the long run is getting rid of the curse. If that doesn't happen, there's little point of planning anything beyond certain date.

Vincent definitely has means to kill the baron, there's no question about that. But he definitely wouldn't do that. First, Vincent thinks all life is sacred and should be protected. Secondly, he's baron's knight and sworn the knight's oath. Which means that he can't go around killing people just like that (not that he would do that otherwise).
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Ilnara



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killing Ashcroft wouldn't help Vincent. Sure he could have a complete personality switch and arrange to "accidently" knock the Baron into water and have him drown but that won't lift the curse. Vincent would just have to swear fealty to some other lord since he won't give up being a knight. That lord might be understanding enough to let Vincent get away with not having his sword but the curse will still be there.

The way I see it, there are four possible options to get the curse lifted
1) Vincent somehow manages to kill a dragon
2) Vincent gives up being a knight
3) Ashcroft asks the dragons to lift the curse
4) Spiky finds some way to convince the dragons to lift the curse
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Nocturne



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I should have entered a curse proviso...

Killing the baron wouldn't fix the curse....would it fix other things, though?
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ak-ryuu
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Joined: 05 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ilnara wrote:

The way I see it, there are four possible options to get the curse lifted
[...]
2) Vincent gives up being a knight
[...]

This one wouldn't lift the curse though.

I also feel the need to point out that for a knight to kill a baron is not exactly something that their legal system will overlook ...
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TheOtherDibbler



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
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Location: Australia!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's possible that killing the baron could very well aid the curse - he's not meant to live past 26 (it was 26 right?), but that doesn't mean he can't die before then. If he kills the baron and anyone finds out or even suspects that it was him, he'd be killed I would expect.

If the baron were to die and Vincent lives on, sure he couldn't be tortured by him anymore, but he'd still be cursed and still die young.

Also, how exactly does someone who cannot hold any weapons kill someone? I mean he has trouble even holding a fork, so I doubt 'it's not really a weapon but can be used as one' will work as a loophole.
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ak-ryuu
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheOtherDibbler wrote:
If he kills the baron and anyone finds out or even suspects that it was him, he'd be killed I would expect.

Yes. There are laws in their country, and even stricter laws for knights. Well, suspecting him wouldn't be enough, but if there's not much doubt ...

TheOtherDibbler wrote:
Also, how exactly does someone who cannot hold any weapons kill someone? I mean he has trouble even holding a fork, so I doubt 'it's not really a weapon but can be used as one' will work as a loophole.

Anything that is being used as a weapon triggers the curse, yes, even if it isn't meant to be used as a weapon. Well, he could probably try to kill him with his bare hands, or indirectly ... I would say there are ways :)
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myrtle



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheOtherDibbler wrote:
[...] so I doubt 'it's not really a weapon but can be used as one' will work as a loophole.

Well, you can use anything as a weapon. An piece of stone, a spoon, a pencil, a glass, a bottle, a book, a towel. The options are endless. Or he could just set a trap, that way he doesn't have to kill him. He would just have to change the circumstances, so that they lead to Ashcliff's death. Or he could train a rat to eat his way through Ashcliff's stomach at night. It wouldn't be a weapon, and so it wouldn't activate the curse.
With that said: NOOO! Ashcliff can't die, he's way to cute, nice, friendly, cool, all those thing's that he probably isn't supposed to be. And evil, in a nice way.
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TheOtherDibbler



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
TheOtherDibbler wrote:
[...] so I doubt 'it's not really a weapon but can be used as one' will work as a loophole.

Well, you can use anything as a weapon. [snippety]

My thinking was that a piece of rope, for example, is just a piece of rope, it can be used in many completely harmless ways, but as soon as someone (ie Vincent) thinks 'Hmm... I could strangle someone with this rope' or in any other way connects the rope with the idea of using it to hurt or kill someone, that rope becomes a weapon. Same goes for any other item. An actual accident on the other hand, Vincent killing someone without intending to, that could happen with no zappage I would think.
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Nocturne



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or poison could be an option.
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Rainaari



Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think Vincent would profit from Ashcliffs death. Vincent feels bound to his oath, and imho depends on rules and order.
The death of Ashcliff would create a certain stirring under his successors, shifts of power etc. Vincent would need a new orientation toward whom to follow. I dont see him as a leading type right now, so most probably he would loose in that scenario.
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Negation



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rainaari wrote:
I dont think Vincent would profit from Ashcliffs death. Vincent feels bound to his oath, and imho depends on rules and order.
The death of Ashcliff would create a certain stirring under his successors, shifts of power etc. Vincent would need a new orientation toward whom to follow. I dont see him as a leading type right now, so most probably he would loose in that scenario.


Interesting idea actually. After being used to receive orders, it would be quite a change to suddenly be without a master.

I wonder if he would stay and try find something to do around the village or would he just gather few items he has and head to somewhere else? Being a wandering knight while still under influence of the curse would be even harder life than his current one I think.
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ak-ryuu
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Negation wrote:
After being used to receive orders, it would be quite a change to suddenly be without a master.

Someone would inherit the Baron's estate. Including his knights.
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Rainaari



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Negation wrote:



I wonder if he would stay and try find something to do around the village or would he just gather few items he has and head to somewhere else? Being a wandering knight while still under influence of the curse would be even harder life than his current one I think.


Being a wandering knight wouldnt help him, thats quite sure. He'd need weapons to defend himself and also for being a knight. The course efficiently prevents that.

If Vincent was away while the barons successor would establish himself and his regime, this would most certainly result in the loss of Vincents (small but existent) privileges, making him no more than a peasant or wandering knight.
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Cthonic Cultist



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
TheOtherDibbler wrote:
[...] so I doubt 'it's not really a weapon but can be used as one' will work as a loophole.

Well, you can use anything as a weapon. An piece of stone, a spoon, a pencil, a glass, a bottle, a book, a towel. The options are endless. Or he could just set a trap, that way he doesn't have to kill him. He would just have to change the circumstances, so that they lead to Ashcliff's death. Or he could train a rat to eat his way through Ashcliff's stomach at night. It wouldn't be a weapon, and so it wouldn't activate the curse.
With that said: NOOO! Ashcliff can't die, he's way to cute, nice, friendly, cool, all those thing's that he probably isn't supposed to be. And evil, in a nice way.


But setting elaborate traps wouldn't be a weapon. I went over this, somewhere, on ways to overcome the curse. And since the curse is linked the the barons lin (I think) then wouldn't the death of the last of the line end with either his death or the breaking of the curse? I'll bet that in his last year of life he, or Roland, would probably try to break it that way. Assuming it doesn't break before then.
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